Grumman-Gang Mailing List Rules

Read this entire document. It contains important information.

To post a message to the list, send it to You must be a subscriber to be allowed to post to the mailing list.

To change your subscription status, send your request to (or, for digest users). To unsubscribe, put the word "unsubscribe" in the Subject: line. To subscribe, put the word "subscribe" in the Subject: line. Leave the body of the message blank.

Or just use the admin form at

If you are trying to unsubscribe, do not send it to the whole mailing list. That is the wrong address for list administrative requests. See the above paragraph for instructions on how to unsubscribe. A good clue that you sent your unsubscribe request to the wrong address is that it shows up in your mailbox, via the mailing list.

Some basic ground rules apply when using this mailing list. These rules are intended to maximize the usefulness of the list and minimize the inconveniences. If you don't agree with the rules or think they are "too restrictive", then you probably don't want to subscribe.

Stay On-Topic - this mailing list is about American Aviation/Grumman American/Gulfstream American/American General/Tiger aircraft. People join this list to talk about such airplanes and related items. People leave the list when the message focus drifts away from the charter. Sticking to the topic is the best thing you can do to insure that someone is there to listen when you really need it. Failure to stay On-Topic will probably get you unsubscribed.

If you joined this list expecting to discuss warbirds or amphibians, you'll be disappointed. While Grumman produced many fine examples of these types, they are not the focus of the list. Nor are canoes or mail trucks. These things are all Off-Topic.

Material from other mailing lists and newsgroups is Off-Topic. Forwarding such material to this mailing list will be treated as a request to be unsubscribed. The list is not to be treated as the one and only source of all news under the sun. You found the material on your own, trust that your fellow subscribers are equally capable.

This list is not a substitute for the mainstream news channels. If you heard about it on the radio, saw it on TV, or read about it in the newspaper, it doesn't belong on this list.

Virus Warnings, real or imagined, are Off-Topic. Most are hoaxes, and the few that aren't are well-covered in the mass media. Don't forward them to the list.

Just because you own/fly/saw a grumman doesn't automatically turn everything into an on-topic post. Even more general aviation topics. There are already other forums for more general aviation topics, please use them. Grumman-gang is specifically for discussing grumman stuff that isn't covered elsewhere.

This is not the Joke List. Don't forward that joke you just got, we've all seen it before. Many times. If you just have to share jokes, join a mailing list or newsgroup that specializes in them. rec.humor, for example.

Should someone make a Off-Topic post, resist the urge to followup to it. If you are compelled to respond, direct your reply exclusively to the originator and not the whole list. Do not contribute to non-topical threads.

This list is not affiliated with the American Yankee Association, although messages relating to the AYA are welcome.

The content of any message posted to this list is solely the responsibility of the originator of the message. It is your responsibility to validate any claim or advice received via the mailing list.

When replying, edit heavily. If you've seen the message, then everyone else has also, or at worst, will see it soon. Restrict your inclusions of previously posted text to the minimum to establish a reference. If you are not specifically referencing the quoted material, delete it. Remove old mail headers and signature blocks in excess of the minimum to identify the originator of the included text. Don't make all the other subscribers wade through useless inclusions to find your words of wisdom because you're too lazy to select and delete the unecessary parts. If you fail to delete excessive quoted text, then the list processor will do it for you. You may not be happy with the results.

Do not include an entire digest as a reference. Including a complete digest as a reference will be treated as an "unsubscribe" request. Additionally, if you are replying to a message within a digest, be sure that the Subject: line is set appropriately. Some mailers are not clever enough to do this on their own, so you're expected to help them.

If you are posting with a mail program that uses "formatted" text, turn it off. It generates large message attachments that are unreadable by all but users who happen to have the same reader. Send plain text only. Just bare ascii messages. No stationery, no fonts, no pictures. Messages containing more than just plain text are automatically rejected.

Be considerate of your audience. If you're following up to a posting with a comment or a question that the entire list may not be interested in, direct your mail only to that person that originated the message you are replying to. The list processor is set up to make this happen by default if you choose to reply to a message. If your mail program is not clever enough to show the address of the person who originated the message, a short "hey so-and-so, send me your e-mail address" note is appropriate. Avoid the "reply-to-all" feature of your mailer, as it will generate a number of unecessary messages to be sent to both the list and the originator and any Cc:'d recipients of the mesage you're replying to. Instead, when choosing to reply to a message via the list, simply replace the "To: " line with the list address. There is no need to Cc: the person you are replying to, they will receive their copy via the list.

If you find yourself composing a reply that starts with a pronoun (that's a first name, for those of you who have forgotten 2nd grade English), then don't send it to the list, unless the content is truly appropriate for the entire list. Specifying the name of the person in the message is a darn good clue that it is only of interest to the person you are replying to. A thousand people shouldn't have to take the time to filter out personal messages because you couldn't take the time to direct the message appropriately.

If you are following up to a message with a witty one-line reply, follow this simple rule: Before sending the message, read aloud to yourself 200 times. If it's still really really really funny, send it to the list, otherwise direct it to the person that originated the message you are replying to.

Postings larger than 50 Kilobytes are not accepted. The proper way to handle large data is to make it available via the web or FTP and post a pointer message to the list explaining what it is and where to get it. Those who attempt to circumvent this size limit will be summarily removed from the list.

Occasionally, network outages may cause mail from the list to you to be undeliverable. Should a large number of messages be undeliverable to you, the list processor will automatically unsubscribe you. You may or may not receive notification of this event, as the notification itself may not be deliverable. If this happens to you, or you suspect it has happened, send a message to, with the word "Subscribe" in the Subject: of the message.

Read all the messages you've received from the list before firing off a reply to a query. You may discover that someone has already answered the question - and worse, if you've sent a reply back to the whole list, is to discover that your reply was wrong.

If you have problems or questions, send mail to the list maintainer. You'll receive the automated help message, followed by a message from a live human, if necessary.

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